“Russia’s not in the position the Soviet Union was in”
For Personal Use Only
British Ambassador believes threat of Russia’s international isolation is exaggerated
British Ambassador Tony Brenton is leaving Moscow, after working here for four years and figuring in a number of major scandals. As he prepares to go, he met with Kommersant’s Mikhail Zygar and told him that the recent telephone conversation between Sergey Lavrov and David Miliband is good news, that after Georgia there is no doubt about the completion of the Nabucco project, what depends on Russia now and whether it will be ejected from the Group of Eight.
- Everyone is now very worried about what Foreign Ministers Sergey Lavrov and David Miliband were talking about and how it could make it was into the press.
- I don’t intend to comment on that conversation. It was a personal conversation between ministers. The British press is free. It wasn’t a political leak, as the Russian Foreign Ministry stated. Something else is important here. We had a very bad period in relations and the ministers did not speak at all for a long time and the fact that a conversation has taken place now is good news.
- Prime Minister Putin recently said that relations won’t be restored as long as Britain continues to harbor persons wanted by the Russian law.
- Yes, I understand that Mr. Putin has very strong feelings about Mr. Berezovsky. But even when he was president, we achieved certain successes in relations by leaving the question of extradition aside.
We had a string of real problems: Berezovsky, Zakaev, Litvinenko, Lugovoi, the British Council. Those disagreements have yet to be settled. Those problems overshadow the fact that economic and trade relations are developing and more and more Britons are visiting Russia and Russians Britain. Although we have not solved the problems of the past, we are now on the path of improving bilateral relations - unless you consider the situation in Georgia. But the ministers started talking to each other. The president of Russia met with the prime minister of Great Britain at the G8 summit in Japan.
Now, as for Georgia, that is a really a very serious problem, not between Russia and Britain, but between Russia and the West as a whole. The question is how Russia and the West will interact in the future. How the Sarkozy plan will be implemented. How the Georgian economy will be restored and the security of South Ossetia and Abkhazia guaranteed. There is now misunderstanding and distrust between Russia and the West, including Great Britain.
- Amongst the Western countries in general, Great Britain looks almost like Russia’s harshest critic.
- If that impression exists, we did not create it. We are part of the West. As a member of the EU, we took part in the development of the Sarkozy plan along with everyone else. Ambassadors from all the NATO countries met in Tbilisi the other day, not just the British ambassador. The West’s response to events in Georgia was amazingly unified and consolidated. I hope Russia will keep that in mind.
- You speak of a single EU position. Nonetheless, the European Union was unable to make any serious decisions on the Caucasus at its last summit on September 1, isn’t that evidence of a schism in the EU, with part of it favoring sanctions and part of it not?
- It’s not like that. There is a broad range of opinion in the EU. There are countries that have had negative experience with Russia not long ago at all, such as Estonia. There are countries that have close relations with Russia, such as Germany. We are somewhere in the middle. And important decisions were made at the summit - to postpone the Agreement on partnership and Cooperation, to press for the implementation of the Sarkozy plan, to send peacekeepers to the conflict zone. That is a unified, consolidated position. In addition, it was decided to study relations between Russia and Europe as a whole and analyze how the crisis in Georgia may affect them. Great Britain did not demand sanctions against Russia. We simply proposed carefully studying the full range of our relations.
I personally hope that Russia will understand that it has gone too far by recognizing Abkhazia and South Ossetia. And it can reduce the concern that exists in other countries, such as Ukraine and Moldova.
- Do you think Ukraine could be the next site of a standoff between Russia and the West?
Many in Europe are afraid that its actions in Georgia will lead to harsher Russian policies in all areas. But I hope Russia will still find a way to solve problems in the future, and not create them.
- What kind of sanctions could the EU impose on Russia?
Well, the EU has already decided to postpone negotiations on the Agreement on Partnership and Cooperation. Cooperation between NATO and Russia has been stopped. There will be no G8 activities for some time.
- Has the G8 already turned into the G7?
- The Eight is still alive. But, of course, it was an unprecedented step when the G7 representatives gathered to show their concern over the situation in Georgia. I don’t think that was the complete collapse of the G8. It depends on various factors. Great Britain is not calling for the exclusion of Russia from the club. But the presidential elections in the United States are a factor. One of the candidates is saying openly that Russia has to be excluded from the G8. It also depends on Russia’s actions to a great degree. Either it will increase trust in it, or it will decrease it. It should withdraw its forces in October and replace them with peacekeepers and develop relations with Georgia and with us. We will be watching closely whether Russia is a constructive partner. Russia should show that it does not threaten its partners and is seeking a way out of the situation.
- Many are talking about a new cold war now. Who needs it?
- I think that is all greatly exaggerated. Russia is no longer in the position that the Soviet Union was in.
- Weaker?
No, not weaker. It is significantly better integrated with the West. There are 250,000 Russians living in Great Britain. You can’t walk down the street in my hometown of Cambridge without hearing Russian spoken. Russian business is firmly established in London. Russia has stronger economic and human ties to the West than ever before. And that is a positive factor. No one wants to sever those ties - not this side or the other. What’s worse is that the war in Georgia is reminiscent of what the Soviet Union was like. Fears have arisen that Russia is moving in that direction.
- Have events in Georgia made the Nabucco gas pipeline bypassing Russia project irreversible?
- Nabucco is an EU project intended to increase its energy security.
- From Russia?
- Yes, from Russia? And there are reasons for that. I have been ambassador in Moscow for four years, and Russia has turned off the gas three times to various countries in that time. Let’s not fool ourselves. It happens. We have to be sure that it won’t happen to us the next time. We have ways to make ourselves more secure, and that’s what we are doing.
- There will be an oil summit in London that Libya and Venezuela are invited to, but not Russia.
- That’s not true. I sent the invitation to President Medvedev to take part in the summit this morning. All suppliers should be represented there. High prices for energy resources lead to economic instability and suppliers suffer from that as well. They are also interested in discussing the situation. And Russia should take part in that discussion.
- In the time you have worked in Moscow, you have practically turned from a witness of domestic political life to a participant in it, especially when you were the object of persecution by Nashi. How much different is Russia under President Medvedev from Russia under President Putin?
- It is too early to tell. I have met with Mr. Medvedev several times. He is impressive. But the crisis in Georgia did not help him. He has said himself several times that he lacks experience in that sphere. That means Mr. Putin remains quite influential. We were all quite inspired by what Mr. Medvedev said about the law, corruption and government not interfering with private business before he took office. We hope that, when the situation in Georgia fades into the background, Mr. Medvedev will concentrate on a positive agenda.
- He also spoke a lot about a new system of security in Europe. Is Great Britain prepared for a new Helsinki or a new Yalta?
- We are open to any ideas. But I have to say that Europe’s willingness to pay heed to Russia is less due to Georgia than, say, a month ago. Russia has attacked another country. The distrust is so great that time will have to pass before anyone will participate in its ambitious projects in Europe.
- What do you think about the influence of events in Georgia on Russian civil society?
- The Georgian crisis reflects negatively on the domestic situation in Russia. It has become extremely unpatriotic to criticize authority, and that is bad in any country. Opposition and criticism are needed everywhere. The tendency in regards to NGOs is also negative so far, but I understand why. Not long ago, there were elections in Russia, and the authorities were concerned about obtaining the desired results. I hope now that they are over a window of opportunity will appear. There are four years left to the next elections. I hope the authorities will begin democratic development, will allow NGOs to operate and maybe the political climate will become more varied than it was in the last elections.
Filed by Amadeus Domaradzki under East-West Relations and Russia